Question and picture...

[Lisa]

Hi all:

I have been wanting to take some portraits in natural lighting....especially with the fall foliage, etc..in the BG. I took this pic with the D70s and 85f 1.4 @ f5 and -1 exposure compensation spot meter. It is VERY dark. My question is how do I go about taking portraits in daylight using the shallow DOF, without blowing highlights or going this dark? Where should I or the subject be placed relative to the sun? I would like to avoid using flash if at all possible as I really like the warmth the sunlight gives on the subject.

http://www.pbase.com/sunny713/image/68636055.jpg

I would like to be able to see her a little more and the shadow/highlight filter in PS does not help this image. I would prefer to get good results out of the camera. If this is a ridiculous question or impossible to do, let me know.....GENTLY;)

Thanks all!

[Robert]

Lisa,

I am in need of lessons on this too. I have been considering getting reflectors, white, gold etc, and I believe they would help a lot in these types of situations. Her darkened right side would be illuminated by the reflector, but that means of course, having either to set one up on a stand or have someone assist with that.
If something else comes to mind I'll chime in again. I will look into some data bases to see if I can find something useful for you in terms of camera set-up.
Lovely girl!!!:)

[Lisa]

Robert:

Thank you, my dear friend! I want to illuminate her, but when I put her in the sun, or even off to the side, it gets really bad. I have tried everything. I want to be able to do something like this on a whim.....I've got this nice little bridge in my front yard which makes for a nice place to take portraits, but I have not been able to take full advantage of it...

Thanks for your help!

[Rudi]

The answer is simple, Lisa! You do NOT shoot her in the sun. :D

Normally, you would use a diffuser AND a reflector if you need to shoot someone in sunlight, or you would use fill-flash to balance the exposure. Sunlit portraits without some sort of light modification will come out harsh and incomplete (highlights blown out, shadows too dark).

[Joe]

Hi Lisa,

Try shooting in the shade with reflected light (off buildings/trees/etc). Here's a sample taken in the shade of my driveway - main sunlight reflected off houses across the street camera left and over my left shoulder with my 9 year old son holding a reflector camera right for fill:

http://www.joemarques.com/upload_images/Portraits/_MG_6719w2.jpg

[Lisa]

The answer is simple, Lisa! You do NOT shoot her in the sun. :D

Normally, you would use a diffuser AND a reflector if you need to shoot someone in sunlight, or you would use fill-flash to balance the exposure. Sunlit portraits without some sort of light modification will come out harsh and incomplete (highlights blown out, shadows too dark).

Thanks Rudi......I'm beginning to get that impression. I did take one once that was so nice, but have not been able to do it again. Guess I should just chalk it up to a fluke!:D

Hi Lisa,

Try shooting in the shade with reflected light (off buildings/trees/etc). Here's a sample taken in the shade of my driveway - main sunlight reflected off houses across the street camera left and over my left shoulder with my 9 year old son holding a reflector camera right for fill:




Very nice, Joe! Thank you for the info...wish I had a kid that would hold a reflector or something for me:eek: I have never thought of using reflections off of buildings, garage doors, etc...I've got much to learn. Thank you very much!

[Roger]

To start wait for a sunny windless day, then find a shady park with fairly thick tree shade. Try a few and play with the results.

I have never messed with reflectors yet, ( still new to this) but I found that shade really helps. ( and low wind)

[Joe]

Very nice, Joe! Thank you for the info...wish I had a kid that would hold a reflector or something for me:eek: I have never thought of using reflections off of buildings, garage doors, etc...I've got much to learn. Thank you very much!

You're very welcome. Take a peek at this site. From what I understand he shoots in a garage with reflected light coming in from behind him (you can kind of tell by the catchlights in the eyes).

http://www.headshot-photography.com/

Shooting with reflected light with the model in the shade is a fairly common approach so give it a try.

[Bobby]

Hi Lisa, just got to this thread now, agree with everyone else. Unless you use some sort of reflected light regardless of the mechanism its virtually impossible. Lots of very good advice that preceded my post.

[Kevin]

Lisa, another item you can use as a makeshift reflector is a windshield sun shade. There's a guy on dpr who uses one very effectively when he's out shooting. Actually he uses just about anything, including foamcore board from the office supply store.

[Lisa]

Kevin!

Thank you! I actually have white foamcore boards......what a cool idea! Now, to get one of the kids to hold it for me:rolleyes:

[Kevin]

If it's not windy and you're doing a longer shot you can sometimes just prop it against something. If you're doing a close up (head & shoulders) say, you can always have the individual hold it themselves to reflect light up into their face.

[Lisa]

Kevin:

Okay.....so, following Joe's advice from a few posts before this, I would have my kid hold the foamcore board in the right hand, while standing at the left side? I am assuming, again, that I cannot be in direct sunlight.....I'd like to try this today as the leaves are still on the trees, but the rains are coming in tomorrow.

Thank you, Kevin. I imagine that I will need to use the spot meter and I'd like to use the 85mm f1.4. This ought to be very interestingcool;

[Rudi]

I find that if I can't get to use a reflector, standing in the shade and using the highlights in a slightly backlit situation can work to great effect. I am not on my main computer, so excuse me for using a promo collage from my website as an example, but the largest portrait in this collage illustrates my point. Her face is in shadow, and some of her hair is high-key, and maybe even blown out, but I think it is very effective and she was happy with this portrait.

I'll see if I can find some more from this shoot when I get the chance.

http://www.rudiphoto.net/Site/Images/jessica.jpg

[Lisa]

Rudi:

Oh, but I like this collage very much! It even looks nice on the smaller one as well. Her face is evenly lit, I think that's what makes this so nice. I cannot have half shadow and half lit and that's what is happening to me. So, you found no need to use a flash on this...just natural lighting.

Here is the picture I did a couple of years ago that I really liked.....the sun was behind me. I didn't have expensive lenses and to tell you the truth, I did better with my trusty old cheapie lenses.

http://www.pbase.com/image/69155060.jpg

I will experiment today...using the reflector and using the backlit subject. Problem is, I have to use the four-year old....:eek: I think I can balance the reflector for him.

[Kevin]

Lisa,
Here are a couple of natural light shots that I've done.

This one I used the white building as a reflector. Probably could've used some more fill but all natural light.
http://www.imagesbykevin.com/Galleries/Gallery%203/R1.jpg

This one was in a park. I placed her in the shade. No reflector but some fill flash. Sunlight was coming from camera right.
http://www.imagesbykevin.com/images/OO1.jpg

This one I used the wall again to provide some fill. Stronger sunlight coming from the right. Natural light only.
http://www.imagesbykevin.com/Galleries/Gallery%205/O7.jpg

This one was in my studio room. North facing window on camera right side coming through blinds. White foamcore reflector on camera left. There's nothing like North light!! :)
http://www.imagesbykevin.com/Galleries/Gallery%201/O1.jpg

Sorry for the small sizes. I'm snagging them from my gallery on my portrait website, which I've never tried linking to. :rolleyes:

[Lisa]

Kevin:

This is perfect....all of your examples and those of Joe and Rudi are helping me here. I really like the third one here.....What is happening is this: I have people from the neighborhood now wanting me to take pictures of their kids, etc.....I'd like to do outside ones first but I have to do this soon. A couple of people want me to set up using their animals, kids, etc...for Christmas cards. I don't think I will be able to do those, however.

But, I have this neat little platform in my basement that would be perfect for a little studio set up. My basement has recessed lighting and all I have is an SB-800. I would like to do outdoor and indoor. I was looking at B & H and over some threads at DPR to get some ideas on what kind of inexpensive set-up I could get to try my hand at a little studio in the basement. Got any ideas for an initial, not fancy, set-up for the basement also?

This is all snowballing on me. I don't want to promise what I cannot deliver. I never charge for my work as this is all practice for me. I don't want to make a habit of this, but I would like to be able to take some really nice pics of my own kids.

I probably should just stick to bugs...they don't talk back:)

[Kevin]

Ok...here are a few more samples.

This was with an SB-800 in a brolly box (enclosed umbrella) on camera right and a silver reflector camera left. (Probably not the type of shot you'd do but just to illustrate the lighting)
http://www.kevinpaavola.com/NikonCafe/MM1.jpg


Another shot using only the SB-800 as main and a reflector on camera left for fill
http://www.kevinpaavola.com/NikonCafe/K1.jpg


More in line with what you'd probably shoot (;)) This was with an SB-800 for fill, SB-600 for main.
http://www.kevinpaavola.com/NikonCafe/SofiaXmas.jpg


It's actually a good thing to shoot with just one light and reflector. That way it trains your eye to "see the light". THen once you get comfortable with it, add a second light and experiment some more.

[Lisa]

More in line with what you'd probably shoot (;)) This was with an SB-800 for fill, SB-600 for main.
http://www.kevinpaavola.com/NikonCafe/SofiaXmas.jpg


It's actually a good thing to shoot with just one light and reflector. That way it trains your eye to "see the light". THen once you get comfortable with it, add a second light and experiment some more.

Yes, that's it!!! Gotta make a Christmas list and I'm SURE I won't be getting a D200:rolleyes: Did you put the SB800 on a tripod? That would be exactly what I'd want. So, what you are saying, except for a BG, I need nothing....oh, and an SB600 to get a shot like the last one. That may just do it for me. I've often wondered how they set up school photos...too bad I don't remember :p .

B & H has some umbrellas that are reasonably inexpensive. I'm going to take my little guy out in about an hour and practice. Will post the results.

Thank you!!!!!

Cute guy, BTW.....cool;

[Kevin]

You could use a tripod but I actually have light stands. I bought an adapter from B&H for about $14 that screws onto my light stand and has a hot shoe for the flash.

Check ebay for umbrellas. I picked some up there for $5 + shipping.

For my youngest daughter's pic(above) I used $3 lace curtain panels that I found on clearance at the store. I put a white sheet underneath to provide the base color. I don't have a white backdrop so I just improvised. ;)

It certainly doesn't look like a portrait that was done on the cheap (aside from the expensive camera gear). Just have to be creative and experiment. And everyone knows you've got the creativity coming out your ears. :)

[Lisa]

Kevin:

Here is what I did yesterday. As you can tell, I did not use the reflector. I need much more practice with that, although I got to see the effects that it does produce. I think it is something that will take some practice. I also realize that there is really no way I can shoot when the sun is at its peak...at least I can't.

This was taken at around 3:30PM without flash. The sun was off to the left of the camera and I was moving around until I could use the shadows to my advantage.

Taken with the 85mm f1.4....D70S you can right click for EXIF info, I believe.

http://www.pbase.com/image/69205429.jpg

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice. I'm only just beginning so we shall see how the use of a reflector goes once I get it right.

[beaucamera]

Robert:

Thank you, my dear friend! I want to illuminate her, but when I put her in the sun, or even off to the side, it gets really bad. I have tried everything. I want to be able to do something like this on a whim.....I've got this nice little bridge in my front yard which makes for a nice place to take portraits, but I have not been able to take full advantage of it...

Thanks for your help!

Lisa, if you want to do this on a whim...(can't blame you for wanting to be spontaneous) you may have to live with the results. The only option I can see for you is using something like Nikon Capture NX. I reprocessed your image in NX and got this.

But, if you want better results, I would really recommend something like a Gary Fong Lightsphere. Just pop in on your SB flash when you're out and about and doing your thing.

Virginia
aka beaucamera

P.S. Your daughter's really growing up fast.
http://www.pbase.com/beaucamera/image/69427161.jpg

[Lisa]

Hi Virginia:

Thank you so much for your advice. The lightsphere may be something i should look into. Mark mentioned something about it as he uses it for some of his work. I do like the softer light towards sunset, though. It's easier to work with...and sometimes the shadows play very nicely.

And yes, she is growing up fast......;(

[beaucamera]

BTW, how do you like your 85mm f/1.4? There's nothing like good fast glass to do what you want to do! I just love my Sigma 30mm f/1.4 for the same reason. I really worked well in low light situations when I was in London!

Virginia
aka beaucamera

[Lisa]

Virginia: You took some awesome shots with that 30 f1.4....your gallery is really, really excellent.....I keep hearing PJ calling you;)

I love the 85mm f1.4. I can tell you it is one of the nicest lenses I own and it is a fun lens. Takes a lot of getting used to with that shallow DOF, but when you are spot on? You are SPOT ON! I have put the Canon 500D on it and have gotten some nice shots also. Oh, and did I mention it is SHARP????banana;

I love using it for flowers and portraits.

[beaucamera]

Virginia: You took some awesome shots with that 30 f1.4....your gallery is really, really excellent.....I keep hearing PJ calling you;)

I love the 85mm f1.4. I can tell you it is one of the nicest lenses I own and it is a fun lens. Takes a lot of getting used to with that shallow DOF, but when you are spot on? You are SPOT ON! I have put the Canon 500D on it and have gotten some nice shots also. Oh, and did I mention it is SHARP????banana;

I love using it for flowers and portraits.

That's great, Lisa. I tried the Canon500D on my 70-200 VR and had trouble with the DOF/focus with it so I never went that route. Glad to hear the 85/500D is working for you.

Virginia
aka beaucamera

[Lisa]

That's great, Lisa. I tried the Canon500D on my 70-200 VR and had trouble with the DOF/focus with it so I never went that route. Glad to hear the 85/500D is working for you.

Virginia
aka beaucamera

roflmao; I hear ya! I think I only got one good shot ONE time with that combo.......but it was a doozy!

[beaucamera]

peekaboo; Time for show and tell, Lisa. I'd love to see your image!

Virginia
aka beaucamera

[Lisa]

I think you've seen this one but here it is...I had the TC17EII on this also...no tripod, pure luck!;)

http://www.pbase.com/sunny713/image/46237626.jpg

[beaucamera]

Oh, scarry! That's a great one for Halloween!
shocked;
Virginia
aka beaucamera