24 Minutes on Andromeda

[nighthound]

My ongoing project to get 90 minutes on the Andromeda Galaxy now sits at 34 minutes of exposure time. 20D • Takhashi Sky 90 II(f/4.5) • Losmandy G-11 Mount • 1600 ISO • Avg. 1.5 min. Exposures Stacked in Images Plus and finished in PSCS. FL of 407mm with only a slight crop at bottom. Here's the latest:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Nighthd/Astrophotography/andromagain2.jpg

NH

[JaredB]

Another spectacular photograph Steve. Do you have a bunch of your work posted at a photo host that one could just go and browsr through?

[Peter]

Absolutely stunningcool; cool; cool;

[Kevin]

The astro shots I really like looking at are the ones that let you see details like the gaps in the dust, like your shot. You've really reignited a desire within me to learn this type of photography. I'm resisting but it's pulling. This shot is magnificent! bravo;

[MichiganMan]

That is great. Not something many others shoot. Very interesting to see this, and very interested in knowing that you are dedicated to doing this type of shooting.

[MGlennn]

Gorgeous !! :) :) I am getting a great education here ;) ;) ;)

[Jonathan]

Gorgeous !! :) :) I am getting a great education here ;) ;) ;)

Same here! Another great one steve. Soo much detail:D

[nighthound]

Thanks very much everyone.

The detail is improving as I add exposure time, having steady seeing conditions helps with this as well.

NH

[stilllearning]

How long did it take you to do that series? I am gearing up to start experimenting with astrophotography. Thats why I'm picking up a 30D. I like the results it gives for long exposures and the price is right at this time. It also takes a lot of patience and good weather for this type of photography.

[Kevin]

I came back by here just to let you know, Mr NH, that I spent a bit of time today googling and reading Meade.com. You know what that means!!!

I did have a question for you though, and it's fitting on this kind of image. When you're looking through your scope at an object like this, can you distinctly make it out? Or is it something that transforms itself into view by taking multiple long exposures and stacking them?

[nighthound]

Oh-Oh, I smell plastic burning. :-)

Kevin, most of the deep sky objects will lack the vibrant color range seen in long exposures. This is due to our eyes inability to make out color at such low light levels. The key to seeing more detail is always dark skies. With Andromeda for instance, it is very visible even in moderately light polluted skies. But the darker the skies get, the more detail and contrast you'll see. Dark skies play a huge role in making imaging and processing easier as well. There are filters available that attach to the telescope eyepieces that will filter out about 70 percent of the bad light without depleting the good. Other filters enhance different types of light. For instance there are nebula filters to help enhance the subtle nebulosity.

Have you narrowed it down to any model or design yet? If you're considering some photography with the scope I can make some suggestions and would be glad to help in any way I can. The choices out there can be a bit overwhelming and even confusing so don't be shy.

NH

[nighthound]

How long did it take you to do that series? I am gearing up to start experimenting with astrophotography. Thats why I'm picking up a 30D. I like the results it gives for long exposures and the price is right at this time. It also takes a lot of patience and good weather for this type of photography.

Gary, the 30D is a great camera for astro work. My buddy just got one and now my 20D is endangered. :-)

I just noticed that the title of this thread has a typo, I meant to type 34 minutes. This image is a stack of 17, 2-minute exposures so it was around 40 minutes or so to actually get them if you factor in pausing between exposures. I use a remote cable and mirror lock for all long exposures. It's a bit reptitive as you can imagine but on a clear night there's a lot to look at while you wait. If you're shooting Lunar images the results can be seen immediately so that's a lot of fun. Deep sky objects can be seen on the LCD too but not like what you'll see after processing.

Weather and atmospheric conditions are always a make it or brake it part of this hobby. But when conditions are right it's really a blast. Especially if you like being out under the night sky. There are always the skeeters and gnats in the summer heat and the cold winter nights as well but that comes with the great outdoors regardless. The hurdles and challenges of imaging the night sky make the results all the sweeter for me.

Do you have a scope already? If so, which model/brand?

NH

[stilllearning]

I have the Celestron C8 SCT with equatorial mount. Light polution can be a problem here in Phoenix. But sometimes it's not when the air polution is low. The person I bought the scope from last May said I should get use to the scope before attempting photography. Now it's been 6 months so I'm ready for the next step. I would imagine the 2 inch filters should work with the T adapters? Which type filter is best for use in photographing galaxies and nebula? Do they make the boards for piggybacking your camera for wide angle shots of the sky? I guess thats enough questions for now.

[nighthound]

I have the Celestron C8 SCT with equatorial mount. Light polution can be a problem here in Phoenix. But sometimes it's not when the air polution is low. The person I bought the scope from last May said I should get use to the scope before attempting photography. Now it's been 6 months so I'm ready for the next step. I would imagine the 2 inch filters should work with the T adapters? Which type filter is best for use in photographing galaxies and nebula? Do they make the boards for piggybacking your camera for wide angle shots of the sky? I guess thats enough questions for now.

Gary, the C8 is a good scope for starting out. At over 2000mm FL however you'll want to work on your alignment fine tuning for long exposures. Learning the drift align method or Iterative method will greatly increase your odds of longer exposures without tracking error. Also. if you do not yet have one, you'll want to get a f6.3 focal reducer/flattener for the C8, I'd recommend the Celestron brand. This will speed up the light gathering capability and shorten the FL some as well. Shooting deep sky at f/10 is just too difficult, especially with the stock C8 mount. Also you'll want to be sure your scope is well collimated to asuure the best focus possible. And you're probably already aware of the time it takes to equalize the internal temperature with external temperature(cool down time) of the scope tube due to it being a closed tube design. Tube currents will degrade photo quality just as they do view quality.

I use a 2" Hutech IDAS Light Pollution filter(highly recommend) that threads onto my EOS T-ring. So yes it is possible to place filters in line with the camera/scope in prime focus. The IDAS reduces light pollution by 70% with no loss of the good light you'll be after.

Focusing your telescope can be a challenge at first. One trick is to take some monofilamnent and tape two pieces at the front of your scope OTA in a cross hair position. This will cause spikes on your brightest stars but will help you get focused. When the cross hair appears sharp, you're focused or close to it. You can preview your first shot on the LCD and zoom in as tight as possible to be sure the crosshairs are a single line and not a double, THEN you're focused. You can remove the monofilament if you don't want spikes at that time. SCTs have a moving primary mirror (when focusing) so you'll want to re check focus when moving from object to object during the night. "Mirror flop" is one of the negatives with an SCT. Changing temperatures during a session will also change focus of the scope. The more costly but highly effective way that I focus is with a Stiletto focus aid by Stellar Technology. Works very well with no guess work.

You might consider getting a web cam like a Toucam Pro II if you don't already have if you have ambitions for planetary imaging. The best stuff out there today is done by stacking hundreds of frames taken with web cams. Amazing detail.

They do make piggy back brackets and rails that will fit the C8. I would go with a rail as they are more stable and will be less apt to have flexure. I got the Losmandy brand because the quality is top notch. You can check Scopestuff.com for some less expensive models as a starting place. Widefield piggy back work is a lot of fun and more forgiving as far as tracking goes.

I'm very envious of your location. I can only dream of living in the SW. You're always just a short drive from the nation's darkest skies.

I'm not sure how advanced you are so I tried to touch on some key points. Hopefully I mentioned a couple things that might help or that you weren't already aware of. -P.S. I checked out your HB gallery, very nice work.

NH

[stilllearning]

Thank you for your advise and information. It will all be helpfull. I've used a refractor in the past so the SCT takes some getting use to. I've never done astrophotography so this will be a new venture for me. I will refine my polar alignment to hopefully reduce the tracking errors. I need to replace that POS finder scope that comes with the C8. Any suggestions in this area? The great part about this system is when I want to upgrade I only have to purchase a new tubes. I'm thinking C11 and C6 in the future or maybe a newtonian. The rez on those things are amazing, just a bit unwieldy when setting up. Thanks again for your advise.

[nighthound]

Thank you for your advise and information. It will all be helpfull. I've used a refractor in the past so the SCT takes some getting use to. I've never done astrophotography so this will be a new venture for me. I will refine my polar alignment to hopefully reduce the tracking errors. I need to replace that POS finder scope that comes with the C8. Any suggestions in this area? The great part about this system is when I want to upgrade I only have to purchase a new tubes. I'm thinking C11 and C6 in the future or maybe a newtonian. The rez on those things are amazing, just a bit unwieldy when setting up. Thanks again for your advise.

Your mount is the single most important part of your set up when shooting astro. The C-11 is too much OTA for your current mount IMO. I don't know off hand your mount's weight limitation but the C-11 is likely going to be too much load, especially when you factor in camera, hardware like piggy back rail, dovetail plate, etc. Proper balance and keeping within mount weight limitations will play a huge role in minimizing tracking error in your images as well.

I would highly recommend the Vixen R200SS Newtonian. It's only 8" of aperture but it's a speedy f/4 and it has superior optics over the SCTs. The OTA is very lightweight too. A fast focal ratio will reduce exposure times which will help lessen the effects of the mount and alignment imperfections.

As a side note, I had a Celestron C-11 carbon fiber OTA for a while and returned it. The cool down time was terrible and I couldn't get it collimated to my satisfaction which is more a problem with that particular sample and not that of all C-11s. When you get up toward 3000mm FL your mount has to be perfectly aligned and tuned. I wouldn't try imaging at that focal length with anything less than a Losmandy or Takahashi mount personally and they're a bit pricey.

I would look at a right angle finder scope as a replacement. You're right, the Celestron finder is very poor, especially the mount bracket assembly. The right angle allows you to look down into the fider instead of straight through, much more comfortable on the neck and back. Stellarvue makes a nice one, that's what I use on my 10" SCT.

NH

[stilllearning]

I agree about the weight of the C-11 after looking at the accessory mount system at losmandy. I was getting ahead of myself anyway. I need to make sure this horse fits in the stable before I start getting more. I'm guessing you have the DM10 for your base dovetail plate? How many additional items do you have to go with it? I can see this is going to have to be a committed relationship if I want to get the results I'm after.

Well first the camera and T-adapter plus T-Ring.

Next, probably the focal corrector F-6.3 and 2" Light polution filter and finder scope.

Then the dovetail mount and camera piggy back system

last but not least the focus aid.

And I'm sure there will be a few other things in there

I think I will start with easy things like the moon and the moon and maybe the moon again, then move onto the planets before trying to tackle deep space.dunno;

[Robert]

Steve,

This image is stunning!! It must be so exciting to take these exposures and then open them up into PS to see how they turn out. I know very little about the cosmos, and so am all the more awed with them.
Couple questions please.. How far away is Andomeda? Approximately how much money must one invest beyond the camera to pull space shots as wonderful as this? I smell plastic burning too!!shocked;

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Nighthd/Astrophotography/andromagain2.jpg

NH[/QUOTE]

[nighthound]

Robert, The Andromeda Galaxy is located at a distance of 2 million light years away and is the nearest major galaxy. Each light year is 6 trillion miles so that's a bunch of zeros.

It's taken me almost 4 years to get to where I am today. I could have gotten to this point quicker with an unlimited budget but like most of us that's just not the case. To shoot deep space objects it takes more precise tracking and that translates into a mount in the $2000-$3000 range and that's really on the low end when you compare to what the big boys use. It can be done for less but the difficulties will make it more frustrating. You can pick up a mount and telescope used and save quite a bit. For the most part those that are into astronomy/astrophotography take very good care of their gear. You add on a telescope tube at around $1200-$2000 and you can see how things add up. Agian, buying used can reduce that number. With all that said, very nice astrophotos can be taken with less expensive rigs, especially Lunar and planetary. I started this way and added on as my interests toward deep space grew. It's hard to resist deep space imaging because there are so many objects to choose from and of course I like the challenge of capturing ancient light that is so low level that much of it can't be seen until long exposures are taken.

Stop over at Astromart and look through their classifieds to get a feel for pricing and telescope types. And visit my buddies site at allaboutastro.com. Jay is a master and offers a lot of good info at his site for beginners and more advanced imagers. Let me know what type of imaging you'd like to try(Lunar, planetary, deep space) and how I might help you get a better understanding of it all. It all seems complex to everyone at first, it did to me for sure. Try to do some reading when you get a chance to get a better understanding of telescope designs and which is better suited to your needs and budget. I'll be glad to help all along the way.

NH