Need advice, evening Koi farm shoot

[MiriamJ]

Hi, everyone.

I've been invited to shoot a Koi farm at night. At first thought, it sounded like something I wouldn't be able to do with my equipment and knowledge.

I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions.

My equipment would probably be my 50mm manual focus AIS that I can open up to f1.4 or my 180mm manual focus AIS that can do f2.8. The camera would be the D70. Another possibility is using the 18-70 kit lens.

I have 2 decent flash units, a stand with umbrella, and remotes for the flash units. Also a good quality tripod for my camera.

The other possibility would be my Coolpix4500, for which I have a polarizing lens and UV lens.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how to approach this.

Thanks in advance. :)

[Rob]

Miriam, Excuse my ignorance but what is a Koi Farm?

[MiriamJ]

Hi, Rob. I forgot, there's probably a lot of places that don't have Koi.

Koi are very beautiful fish that are often seen in outdoor ponds in areas with good year-round climate. As far as I know, they're not for eating. The coloration makes me think of fancy goldfish, although they are very large, I would think much too large to keep inside the average sized household.

There's a Koi farm in Barstow, about 30 miles from here, that raises them commercially. I assume that's the one we were going to photograph.

Actually our nighttime shoot was cancelled, and we'll shoot during the day sometime next month, so it should make taking pictures a lot easier.

[Rob]

Thanks Miriam. I'm afraid this is getting a bit outside my current league. Think it is going to be "Experiment" Wish you all the best though & look forward to some results.

[MiriamJ]

Well, outside my experience, too. Thanks, Rob, we'll see what happens.

[Wulff]

I have a Koi pond Miriam.
I'm not a true Koi enthusiest so I don't have indepth knowledge and may be a bit wrong but to give you some information. Koi are carp that have been bred genetically to produce the varios colours. The colours and shape of the patterns determine the breed.,,,ie this breed hasthese colurs/patterns and that breed (strain) has that colours/pattern. Its a Japanese tradition that goes back centuries. Some koi from select Japenese breeders can cost in the tens of thousands ad paying between 1,000 and 10,000 USD pretty common. Even here in Canada the retailers etc always carry Koi in the $500.00 range that would probably be considered "Mutts" by the true Koi keeper :) Man if you think photogra[phy is expensive.....lol Between the cost of the Koi, the filtration and irigation systems to the pond itself expenses easily get into the 10s of thousands :)

Anyways in terms of shooting them I know a few people who prefer to shoot them at night. Most though do it by day with little more than a CP and a fast lens. Be carefull if you use a flash due to glare of water/scales etc. I would recemoned a selection of focal ranges but chances are you will be able to get quite close, likely only acouple feet away. Ive used my 180 macro to shoot some of mine from 6 inches to 2 feet. At the farm your likely dealing with a mix of mud ponds and probably tanks. Koi are quite tame and will likely come up to check you out once they see you and for sure will go nuts when some foods spread about.

Hope that helps.

[MiriamJ]

I have a Koi pond Miriam.
I'm not a true Koi enthusiest so I don't have indepth knowledge and may be a bit wrong but to give you some information. Koi are carp that have been bred genetically to produce the varios colours. The colours and shape of the patterns determine the breed.,,,ie this breed hasthese colurs/patterns and that breed (strain) has that colours/pattern. Its a Japanese tradition that goes back centuries. Some koi from select Japenese breeders can cost in the tens of thousands ad paying between 1,000 and 10,000 USD pretty common. Even here in Canada the retailers etc always carry Koi in the $500.00 range that would probably be considered "Mutts" by the true Koi keeper :) Man if you think photogra[phy is expensive.....lol Between the cost of the Koi, the filtration and irigation systems to the pond itself expenses easily get into the 10s of thousands :)

Anyways in terms of shooting them I know a few people who prefer to shoot them at night. Most though do it by day with little more than a CP and a fast lens. Be carefull if you use a flash due to glare of water/scales etc. I would recemoned a selection of focal ranges but chances are you will be able to get quite close, likely only acouple feet away. Ive used my 180 macro to shoot some of mine from 6 inches to 2 feet. At the farm your likely dealing with a mix of mud ponds and probably tanks. Koi are quite tame and will likely come up to check you out once they see you and for sure will go nuts when some foods spread about.

Hope that helps.

Wulff,

This is not only very helpful, but also interesting and informative. I knew that the Koi had been bred by the Japanese for centuries, but no idea how valuable they are. Wow! Nor did I have any idea they were tame.

Interesting, your comment about people who prefer to shoot them at night. I rather thought it might add an interesting element to the photo, if I could do it.

Very much appreciate your extremely useful suggestions. I'll keep them in mind. Thank you!

[Wulff]

Wulff,

This is not only very helpful, but also interesting and informative. I knew that the Koi had been bred by the Japanese for centuries, but no idea how valuable they are. Wow! Nor did I have any idea they were tame.

Interesting, your comment about people who prefer to shoot them at night. I rather thought it might add an interesting element to the photo, if I could do it.

Very much appreciate your extremely useful suggestions. I'll keep them in mind. Thank you!

Your welcome.
I like my pond and Koi I do have. Most are domestic (cheap :) ) but I do have 2 Japanese (imports) that I paid a 100.00 for when they were 1 inch. My wife thought I was nuts as theres a small chance theyd just end being a good meal for a Raccoon or Heron :).. Happy to say 3 years later they are still going and have even managed to survive 3 Cdn wnters under the ice. As for the price yeah for the "show" quality koi they can get crazy expensive.

I think the preference for night shooting has more todo with eliminating glare off the water tan anything else. Also Id guess the dark water adds some contrast and looks better than flat or even muddy water by da depending on the pond type.

Mud ponds are actually better for the Koi and their colours and I would surmise the ponds at the farm are mud ponds if they are breeders. The pristine crystal clear ponds you see at homes, parks, busniess with heavy filtration etc are more for the owners benefit and being able to view the Koi.

[TheDuck]

I think you're right. The night shooting is so that you don't have to deal with glare. Koi tend to be bright and reflective so it's actually not as bad as you'd think. With moonlight it's quite nice because you get the interesting reflection shot with colours.

During the day, you're going to want to have a polarized filter to help straighten out the glare. Obviously, a shady day is better. Also, if you can shoot RAW format that would be better. There was a Photoshop User magazine that showed (amusingly enough) a terrible Koi shoot. I'm certain 90% of photographers would have written off the pictures. However, becuase they were RAW, the author showed how to recover them surprisingly well. So keep in mind the image may be in there after all. Using the multiple screen technique or masking the highlights and looking for colour data in them might prove a better shot than your first impression might give you.

You might be tempted to use flash but I don't think that will help. The water will repel it quite effectively. Coupled with your camera trying to compensate for the apparently dark water and it just won't go well. One thing that might help is an underwater or water resistant flashlight. You'll have to play with white balance later but Koi are reflective and it will give you more than you'd think the light alone would. If you have a black, white, and grey (or at least black and white) object, too, that will help later. Put that in the water to allow Photoshop to colour correct for you. A hockey puck and a ping pong or golf ball should work. Take a reference picture of them with each lighting setup so that you can use those settings later to correct your other pictures (or include them in every picture but the moving Koi might make that challenging -- they also may try to eat them!).

Finally, tripod is a good idea. Set up manually for focus just below the surface (this is where the ping pong ball comes in handy). Then simply put your hand above the water. Koi are the labrador retriever of the fish world. Food is a serious motivator. If they think you're going to feed them they'll be there in no time.

Ok, I think I've rambled on long enough. Good luck!

[TheDuck]

Oh, I just realized the date of the posting! Did you already shoot them? How did it turn out? Did you learn any other tricks that helped?

[MiriamJ]

Doug,

All that great advice. Sadly, I've put up my camera for awhile so I could help my mother. I'm getting ready to leave now to see her. Thanks for the help, and hopefully I'll be able to try it out in the near future. Many thanks,

Miriam